№19 – Who is a Scent Librarian with Hanna Lambert

Ever wanted to be a librarian? How about a Scent Librarian? Meet Hanna Lambert, who had this unique title at Scentmate, part of the dsm-Firmenich group. In this episode, Hanna shares her journey of work, dedication, and empathy — and why she recently stepped away for something even more important to her.

Explore more about Hanna and the Scentmate project:

• Scentmate Project: Visit Here
• Connect with Hanna on LinkedIn: View Profile
• Follow Hanna on Instagram: Follow Here
• Track Hanna's Adventures on Polarsteps: See the Trip

Ever dreamt about going to space? Connect with Tanya!

• https://www.instagram.com/neparfumer/
• https://www.coachmironova.com/

Transcript

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And that's actually a little side note, something I really liked about your podcast is that you're showing different aspects of the industry. it's super nice. Hi and welcome to How I Became a Perfumer podcast. In each episode we explore the different roles in the flavoring fragrance industry as well as talk to founders of independent projects. My name is Tanya Mironova. I'm a career coach dedicated to helping you sniff out the best opportunities and inspiring you to create your own projects. Many of you already thanked me for spreading the knowledge about the industry. If you find the information in this podcast useful or, and inspiring, and also want to support it, please go and review it on your favorite listening platform. Thank you. My guest for today's episode is Ascent Nerd. whose passion extends beyond traditional perfumery. Hannah Lambert is daring, deeply empathetic, and perpetually positive. Traits she equates to those of a small bird always in search of freedom. Holding a chemistry degree from University Côte d'Azur and a master's in formulation and sensory evaluation from OSP, so now you will hear my terrible French. École superiore de parfum. She has held roles including fragrance development manager at sentmate Firminish and research and development manager at Spera. Tana, welcome to the show. Hi Tanya, thanks a lot for having me. I'm very happy to have you. And since today and Hannah knows it's perfectly already a very random day, I will share with you a random story about how I usually find guests for the episode. So the first em cohort is people who I know in person from my experience in the industry. The second group is people who are recommended to me by someone. And the third group my favorite, is totally random search at LinkedIn, which sometimes brings me to gems like Hannah. And now I will tell you why. You know, LinkedIn recommendations, a very random thing. But I saw a post which somebody from my circle liked and it was Hannah's post, which was literally saying, after a rich chapter of two years spent at sent made by DCM Ferminish in Barcelona. I'm happy to announce that I'm starting a new adventure. I will be traveling from Mexico and Central America for a minimum period of six months, discovering new cultures, landscapes, wildlife, and hopefully some new scents. I fell in love with this post, you know? Thank you. So here comes my first question. How have your personal traits of being daring, empathetic and positive influenced your career in perfumery? That's a very good question. Honestly, I think it's with me every day. The thing is that I can't really pretend to be someone I'm not. I'm someone that really cannot lie or cannot pretend to be someone else. uh And I think that this, in my career life, well at least from what I've heard from people I've worked with is something that is very appreciated. And you know, when I'm in a company like IncentMate for example, I arrived uh in a position that I was opening a position, let's say that before me there was nobody. So the fact of being daring and well, yeah. Firstly, daring. You know, I had to go for things, know, to build my position. I had to go and look out for people and ask questions and say, hey, I would like to install this. Can I install this? And I think, yeah, this comes from this kind of daring personality. always with myself, you know. It's not that I want to dare uh people, it's just that I think, okay, what can I bring here? Yeah, as Hanak, what can I bring and how can I bring it the best way possible? So yeah, the daring part, I would say it's this. And the empathetic, I think, you know, it's a skill that really helps with relationships. So at work. eh I think it's always good when you speak to someone. I know it's very appreciated when they see that you understand what they're going through, what they're saying more than just listening with an ear and thinking of something else on the side. So yeah, I'm just myself and I take the opportunities that come and I try to give the best of myself. eh not saying that I'm perfect at all, but On that sense, I think it helped me on my career path. Well indeed, and I believe what you're saying is about like being present and also what you've said, it's very important and I'm happy you mentioned it, that you're always trying to do your best. um I noticed it because listeners maybe know already that we do have sound tests and with Hanna we had it twice and we literally tried out all the opportunities we could to make it the best sound possible. And you know, from my experience, not everyone, not every guest is ready for this commitment. Really? mean, it's blessing. ah Yeah, it's just a part of the process to make a good thing, to make a good product, to make a good episode. And for me, it's also important as for you to try to make it the best way possible. But going back to you and your story, in fact, you are the first guest who have a very interesting combination of both working for a very big company, but also... starting a new project in a very big company, which Sandmade was at that time. Maybe you could share a little bit how you find yourself in this position, what was so unique about this product or maybe still is. Alright, so ScentMate was created inside the DSN PMR niche, so it was born inside the DSN PMR niche as an initiative to reach out more middle, from small to middle size clients, you know, and giving them what they ask for, you know, which is agility and of course being backed up by the knowledge of DSMP Munish is a huge plus. let's say that it was an initiative to reach these clients and also surfing on the trend of being data driven and really accompanying the customers with knowledge on the market. So when I arrived, the position had a very curious name, which is Saint Librarian. So, mean, when I saw the post on LinkedIn, I was like, okay, I'm clicking on this because this sounds super curious. Also, I love to read. And I was like, what could be a position that is related to Saint and it's librarian, you know, so I thought it was about books or anything. I mean, I don't know. I was really curious. I opened- perfect, I agree, I agree. And I obtained and I saw that it's basically a position of fragrance development manager, so an evaluator, but taking care of the portfolio of the company, so what we call the library. So a proactive evaluator. And when I read the job description, uh I thought it really fits. mean, it would have been... Well, it was at the time my first uh experience as an evaluator because before Scentmate I was a fragrance analyst, a perfumer analyst. So I thought it would be a nice step, you know, like a baby step to go into the evaluator world and see if I like it. yeah, that was when I entered the position. And then... When I arrived in Sentimate, I realized that there was everything to build for this position. And especially Sentimate as it's... I mean, it is inside TSM Feminish, but the way we did things at Sentimate are unique, know. So we needed every time to, you know, to document everything that we did and have clear processes, you know. everything I did I had, yeah, I really had to keep in mind that it would need to be good for the future, you know? Yeah, which is something that I didn't have in mind before I arrived and I realized as I went. And from what I've heard, like from the feedbacks of my colleagues, I did it the best I could, I think. and it was very appreciated because it's a lot of effort to that everything that you do you need to think okay is this the way that will I don't know that I could tell someone else who comes and do the same position as I do I mean could they understand it is it easy is it you know I don't know if it's because I'm I try to do everything the best I can or or if it's normal but that's how I did it anyway Well, I'm very happy to hear that you... Even there, like starting a position which no one ever tries to work in and you still have your mindset about doing it the best way possible. I like it very much. I don't know if I did, but I tried. m I'm sure you did. At least we are recording right now. I believe the same attitude you've had there. I hope that the projects worked well. But you know, you mentioned a few things which I want to ask you about. And the first one, probably the short question would be about why was it important at some step for a big company to also invite small and middle sized businesses? um to the company as clients because not everyone does it. No, exactly. mean, SM Fuminish is designed to work with bigger clients who really, you know, the development of fragrances are really long, like they are one, two years. And then there's all these small and medium customers that want to make perfumes and they have, I mean, they could be the future bigger ones, you know, and they... And when they reach out to DSM Feminish because of the way that the processes are designed, they cannot work with a company like DSM Feminish. So I think it was in DSM Feminish's interest to find a way to reach out to these clients also and give them the opportunity to work with a company that's, I mean, it's been... I think 150 years that this infirmary exists, has ingredients, has, uh I don't mean to be super corporate here, but it's true, it has a lot of very good quality to offer and it would be a shame that these smaller customers, if they couldn't have it, you know. Yes, totally. I just really know that a big problem for a lot of independent perfumers and small businesses is to find a reliable partner who has ingredients from the bigger houses, so that if at some point they want to change this partner, they could still find another one who also uses the ingredients from the same big company. And here, basically, it's just a very interesting entrance. to the company because of course SandMaid uses the same Firminish portfolio but just have different options and different, I believe very oh customized solutions. Yeah, yeah, of course there are three perfumers in ScentMate that are only dedicated to ScentMate. I mean, of course we share a portfolio with Firmanish, but also projects are designed also by ScentMate. So it's nice, I think, for the customers to have this proximity. But also the... Having someone to to design it for you as a as a bigger company, you know Totally. Well, returning back to your story and your transition to this role, you mentioned that, well, you saw this Sand librarian opportunity and you were considering evaluator career. How did this transition happen in your mind? Because I believe before the Sandmate journey, you were mostly focused, as you said, I would say more hardcore stuff. At least to me, like to someone who doesn't have a degree in chemistry, never worked in a research and development domain. So how was this transition happening to you in your head? Well, it's a good question because it's funny. I I always loved science, you know, so I'm interested. I'm sorry. I'm curious about, about science. so at first entering the industry through the analysis lens was very interesting. And, and I really liked it, to be honest. I was working at Only Fragrances, which is a small company in Grasse. And I was an apprentice fragrance analyst, but also on the side I was doing my master's thesis on the Richard's research on how to better extract the scents from chawages and products that are not alcohol-based. So technically it was super interesting, but I felt that, you know, this position is very isolated. Being an analyst is very isolated because you work on the formula and you only work on the formula part and you don't have interactions that reach further into the development of the fragrance. You have no contact with marketing, no contact with the... commercial and I think that's what I was missing. And I thought, okay, why not try the evaluation part, which is really in the middle uh of the development. And it's super interesting because you really have the opportunity to see a bit of the market and yeah, to work on the market and with the clients and also work with the perfumer to build the formula. Only one detail that I mean I was taking talking about the clients, but I was not working with clients directly and because I was doing the proactive developments for our sentiment, but But you know, I was working closely with the team and and you know, we we really had I really had a window to see okay this client from this country really like likes this and You know, we were interacting a lot with my colleagues so I really could get this vision, overall vision of the industry. So it was really nice. You used a proactive development for the second time. So now I'm curious What is a proactive development and does it have any uh I don't know any difference with just active development just development or inactive development so No, definitely. It's true that I use this as if everyone understood, but I understand there's a bit of a confusion. So when I say proactive and I put it in opposition with reactive development, well, reactive development is when a client comes to you and say, I would like to launch my, I don't know, my next candle range and I would like to develop fragrances with you. And the proactive is more like working closely with the marketing and seeing what's on the market and what's, yeah, kind of zooming in a market and a country and an application and seeing what's trendy and what's coming also. I mean, what the customers are used to see and seeing if... we have uh things that we can propose, fragrances in this case, that we can propose to satisfy the customer's need and also see where we can bring something new. It's very close to marketing. let's say that my requests were not coming from clients but from marketing. Right. So if I understood correctly, what you're saying is that proactive development is something where a lot of actors involved to make a product for something which is definitely looking at the future as... or looking at the future or also looking at what is done now and yeah if we can offer things that we know that customers are asking by analyzing the markets. Yeah, I see. Well, it now sounds interesting that somebody doesn't try to be proactive. No, no, mean, every, I think every company tries to be proactive. It's more that in ScentMate, there was no one, there was no one dedicated to real proactive developments. and maybe I don't, honestly, I don't know in other companies if there are, there is one role that is very dedicated only to the proactive developments. I know that because we want to be agile at ScentMate. This was a real focus. So when I arrived, I was told, okay, your role is very important because we really want to anticipate the client's needs. So we want to get prepared and anticipate their needs. Mm-hmm. This is really interesting and also, you know, it's just my point of view maybe it's wrong, but I believe that if it's a new company with not too many people working there, it's a little bit... sorry everyone, but it's a little bit easier to be proactive. Yeah, yeah, of course. when it's a big corporation, because when I see companies with thousands of people, hundreds, thousands of people, it's, well, you might be very proactive in your strategy, but it just takes time. Not sure if the size influences it. I do agree that it's easy when you're a smaller team, but I think it's really also the focus that you put in your company. The more people you have, of course, the more speed you have in answering clients. And it's true that when you have a smaller team, then you need to be more prepared in advance. yeah, maybe. However, I'm very happy that you're uh saying all that because when you return from your trip and maybe you'll be looking for something else, I would be very happy to have leaders like you more in the industry who really looks at things like that. It's not like me conservatively saying that the bigger company means less proactive approach. I mean, I don't know if I'm the leader type, but thank you. I appreciate the comment. Um, you know, I also have a question which I hadn't been thinking about, but you were saying that you, um, worked in fact as an evaluator, not directly facing customers. Well, directly, directly I would say. But I really have a different opinions about the evaluator work and the expertise, which is necessary for, for doing it good. And some evaluators, um, like you or. Some people I know, they have a very strong scientific background. Like really strong, they could basically go to GCMS and then say, it was that, you know how it works. At some points of my life, I was recommended to someone and I don't have a scientific background. I was recommended to someone as a very good evaluator, though I could do nothing of what I mentioned above. So I'm just... curious what's your take on the evaluated job because I know that a lot of people find themselves somewhere in the middle, not willing to become perfumers, not really analysts, and they think like, I will go to a sense development manager position. I think the scientific background is not necessary, to be honest. So it does help for me to understand the vocabulary of the perfumer. I think it's key to know what the perfumer can understand uh because in the end the evaluator is the one that will do the connection between the perfumer and the client request. So usually coming from the commercial team. So it's really important to know how to speak both languages because the two, the commercial, well, the customers and the perfumer, sometimes they can have trouble to understand each other because the perfumer is very technical. He speaks a lot with raw materials and less with sense, know, with the vocabulary more general about sense. that someone without a perfumery degree could understand. So for me, it's really, it's like a good evaluator could very well not have a scientific background for me, but it does help to communicate with the perfumer. I don't know if this answers your question. It does, yeah, it's your position, which I think is very close to what I was also thinking. But for someone who is right now hesitant whether they are qualified or overqualified, it's as good to have as many opinions as possible. Well, I can add on this that for me the qualities for an evaluator, it's really, I think the empathy is very important. Not too much, but I think that it's very important for the evaluator to be able to put him herself in the shoes of who they're interacting with, you know. So whether it's the perfumer or the client or the commercial team. empathy is very important in that sense. And regarding degrees, think knowledge about perfumery in general is, I mean, of course it's recommended, But you learn all the time. Every time. I really love, you you are saying that leadership roles might be like you don't know yet whether you will be good at the leadership role or not. But already during our conversation, I noticed a few things which are telling me you're a great leader starting from empathy, which a lot of leaders forget about. Going further to putting yourself into somebody's shoes, which is also part of empathy, of course. and also to constantly learning and doing your best. So, um like, yeah, I'm just calculating the skills. Yeah, mean, I think it's easy for me to be empathetic and I don't know, try my best when I don't have like a team of five or ten to fifteen people that I need to take care of. I think if leaders, some leaders forget sometimes about empathy, which I'm not saying it is good. I would love that all leaders would still be super empathetic and super caring, but maybe it's a matter of too much to take care of. At one point, maybe it's hard to be good every time. It's hard to be perfect when you have a lot to take care of. Returning back to the education a little bit. It's also, you know, one of the things which people who live in France have one idea about and probably people who live outside France have a different idea about is the education which might be required for getting into the industry. I mean, of course, there are different pathways, etc. But I quite often heard that people who have a French background have more information probably about how to get into the schools. And well, let's be honest, most of the schools are located in France. So did you at some point maybe feel that you have a sort of, you know, an advantage? Definitely. No, definitely. I think we're super lucky in France to have, well, many schools now. mean, before there were only two. at the beginning there was only one, the SIPCA, then the ESP came, and now you have various smaller schools that developed. But I mean, it's only in France. I don't think... I see now... In Italy, think I mean I've seen some schools Sprouting But it's very very recent, you know, so definitely being in France Being able to study in this school is a super huge advantage and I think mostly it's because We get to learn the vocabulary of smells m while studying. mean, most people, if they are not in France and they don't get to study perfumes, well, they need to enter a company and learn in the company, you know. So we arrive at the company and we already have the vocabulary. And also in the school, you see all the aspects of the development of a fragrance. we also already maybe have more idea of what we would like to do or not, even if this is, I think, a bit international, but anyone going out of the school first thinks, I want to be a perfumer. And then when you enter a company and you see all the other roles that are around the development of fragrances, I think that it's... uh People change their mind a lot and for the good, know, you can only have perfumers. You need people around also for the development. And in the end, what counts for people that are passionate is to create fragrances. everyone in the development of fragrances is involved in the creation of the perfume, not just the perfumer. Lady. And if I understood correctly, you meant that if you are somehow participating in making a final product, it's already a very big feeling. Of course. And the different roles that are implicated are super nice also, you because in the end, what you do is you create sense, you know, you create something that everyone gives their opinion on it, you you develop a fragrance and if you're lucky enough to have a team where you're connected to different people, you can make them smell and everyone takes part in the creation of the fragrance in the end. And I think for a perfumer also, I'm not perfumer so I don't know, but I think for them maybe it could get quite lonely sometimes, you know, you're alone with your formula and you don't know if you're doing it right or not. And it's really nice to have help from people that don't have the mind into the formula. into the technical side and that can give you more of general feeling. Like, yeah, if you're looking to develop a fresh fragrance and you put a lot of citruses but you don't know if the effect is very fresh, you know? So you need to ask people that don't know what you put inside and say, hey, is it fresh? Fresh enough and then you can know. Yeah, and based on this experience and what you've said, do you think it's a good idea to take any role at the company which presents itself, if you're qualified, just to see whether it works for you or you think it would be a better strategy for somebody who's maybe listening already works in the company, to have a very, very specific role in mind and don't have agility and flexibility to take any other clothes roll just to compare. Unfortunately, big companies, want someone that they can train and for them to stay in their position. They don't really want too much turnover. That's the reality of it. I mean, to think only strategical, would say at least pretend that you have it all clear. Because, they will appreciate that. when I say this, I'm thinking of the SM Firmany, Givaudan, bigger company that when you're into a position, you don't really get out of your position. If you're in a company that is much smaller or like Scentmate that is a kind of startup mentality, then It's quite appreciated to know that you are interested in other things, that you won't always say, no, this is not my role, I won't do it. So, I personally, for me, but this is very personal, I think it's super good to be curious and you cannot know exactly what you want to do without having tried it. Especially in school, they give you one vision of each role. But maybe when you enter the company and you see exactly the everyday role of an evaluator, of a perfumer, then you might realize that maybe it's not made for you or maybe it's perfect for you. I wanted to be a perfumer at first and I did formulations inside my my old company inside Only Fragrances and honestly I figured that it wasn't made for me, you know? And I found out there that it wasn't made for me. So I wouldn't have thought this, you know? I'm really thankful you shared this experience, because when you said that you are not a perfumer, my initial question was, did you ever want, like have you ever wanted to become one? Because this is the starting point how we know the industry. Yeah, definitely. That's what we are introduced to. You're going to study frequencies uh in order to create frequencies. And everyone outside also puts you in this box like, oh she knows things about fragrances, she's a perfumer. Tick! Yeah, I think the most common question I get is, so are you a nose? And I don't know what to say because I always say, I mean, it depends for you what nose means. If nose means a perfumer, no, I'm not. If nose means someone who works with his nose, yeah, of course, I smell every day. so, I mean, I'm a nose in that sense, but it really depends on what the people... think about when they and I am in most cases they think perfumer you know so yeah It's so interesting, know, just this idea came to my mind that it's so narrow minded. Sorry, but really it's like, if you meet someone who works in IT industry and the person says like, oh, I'm a sales or I'm in marketing and IT, nobody will come to this person and say, oh, you're a programmer. You might go and just like, I don't know, that does depend on the qualification, but. Anyways, you will not send someone to go and write a code or you will not call a person somehow specifically But if you work in the flavor and fragrance industry, I'm not just even talking about flavors The people there are forgotten. I mean like the flavors exist. It's something we are opening in our podcast for the listeners, but um Yeah, if you work in the fragrance industry, it's definitely that Hanna should be making perfumes. Yes If she's not a perfumer, it's just such a great thing. It's a disappointment. Also, you're not a perfumer. No. But I still made your perfumes. And you have to prove that you're still like, you know, a normal individual who knows something about smells and still able to talk about them though, not? But know, it's only a matter of misinformation. Nobody goes and says, you know, in the fragrance industry, there are other roles than perfumers. And that's actually a little side note. Something I really liked about your podcast is that you're showing different aspects of the industry. So it's super nice. Thank you. I really appreciate it. By the moment this episode gonna be live, you will probably already be on the trip. And in fact how I wanted to ask you about your passion for freedom and about your decision to really go to another continent, to a different world to explore, from the role you really have been committed to a couple of years. I really would be happy if you could share what was the mind shift or how this idea sparkled, because I really love to know how people decide to dare so much. It has been a journey, to be honest. I think, you know, I was always, as you saw, know, I did the fragrance analyst and then evaluator and well, so far I stopped there. But in my mind, it was always like, I don't know, there's something missing. Like I'm super passionate. I love fragrances. mean, mostly I love scents. And I don't feel like in these positions I'm 100 % fulfilled. And I really thought quite a bit on why is that and maybe I'm just too hard with myself and maybe I need to enjoy these experiences and that's it. But I really, I think it started during COVID because I had a lot of time to think because I was at Only Frequencies at this time and I couldn't go to the company. I was in Chômage Partiel, I don't know how you say it in English. And I had a lot of time to think and I really thought, there are things personally that I need to fulfill, dreams of mine, in order to be fulfilled. happy with myself. And yeah, after COVID and after my time at Only Fragrances, I went to Latin America for five months. And I absolutely fell in love with traveling alone and with this continent and with this culture. And I wanted more. But I had, I mean, I, you know, there's always this question of if you live so long, maybe you miss on opportunities in the industry. And so when I came back, I was looking for a job and I found ScentMate and I'm super, super grateful to have found this because I really needed this experience to be in a company that's Also, it's part of a bigger company seeing also Sandmate is very, the team is small, so it was very accessible. I got to learn so much with the perfumers and the marketing and every team really was super accessible and I learned a lot. And I gained confidence to realize uh projects that I have in mind, which is to go independent. and not making fragrances, I would like to do trainings, olfactive trainings for the fragrance industry, but also for coffee and wine. you know, I think that I really have this need to be an entrepreneur, to do my own thing. Maybe it won't last long. I don't know. But I think you understand the... the need to do your own thing and step out of the creation parts, let's say, and be more into the sharing knowledge and expertise. In this conversation, we talked about the lack of knowledge from people that have not studied in France. Well, this is something that I think is a shame and I really want to help and bring expertise. to other parts of the world or to people that didn't have the chance to do the Persian school. That's wonderful. Let's manifest it together. I hope. Well, Hanna, it was a wonderful conversation. I have a few blitz questions for you before letting you fly to your next destination. The first one. Which fragrance ingredient fascinates you the most? As you know, I'm super curious again, so I have so many that I really love. But I would say that patchouli for me is, you know, it's super classic. But it's so amazing how this ingredient is, it's a leaf, which smells like wood, like wood and moss. And for me, it's even sweet. You know, it smells even like chocolate, know, nut and chocolate and it's in every fragrances almost and I think it's just timeless and it blends well with a lot of things and alone each quality, each different quality is so different and it's, you know, there are ways of extracting it that are different and Every time a different facet comes out and for me it's really really interesting this material. That's exactly what we need to be fascinated by. It's like, you know, like love you. If there is only one facet present, you might get bored. But if you want to have a long lasting relationship, it should be fascinating you all the time with different facets, with something new, with something developing. I like the image there, yeah, definitely. I love your answer very much. What scent takes you back to your childhood? so I grew up in Grasse in the south of France and my grandmother actually lives in Pégomas where there are like a lot of plants that perfumers use, like the rose, the jasmine, the tuberose. But one that is a bit less known is the mimosa flower. And actually there are forests of mimosa. uh And one that was really above my grandmother's house. And so every time that we were doing uh a family dinner on Sundays, after dinner, after lunch, sorry, we were going on a walk in those hills with this forest of mimosa. And so around January, February, where the flowers are blooming, it was absolutely amazing the smell. uh really you were walking. with this super strong smell of mimosa and also with eucalyptus because I don't know why there are lots of eucalyptus trees also together with the mimosa. And so this mix of mimosa and eucalyptus really brings me back. Like I cried at perfume school when I was in Paris when we smelled the mimosa absolute because I was kind of homesick. At the time, I was in Paris, it was grey and I smelled the mimosa absolute and I cried a little bit. was like, uh I wish I was back in the South. I never experienced m a mix of eucalyptus and mimosa, but these two separately are totally perfect for me. But talking about mimosa forest and mimosa festival, which you do have in Kodazoo region. Yes. Yeah, I must say that I'm also very nostalgic about mimosa, but it's a different reason. The thing is that in Russia, where I'm from, it's a very common flower. to give to women as a gift on the 8th of March, so on the International Women's Day. And a lot of mimosa from these forests are coming directly to Russia and being sold in every, even the smallest, tiniest towns which I'm from. And it's so wonderful that you also have this type of nostalgia, it's so different. But to me, believe it or not, mimosa, despite the fact that I saw a lot of forests while living in Cannes, I still have this memory as something very close to me, but from the fact that, well, I sometimes got it as a gift myself while living there, I mean, in Russia, or I was buying it to my mom. So it's also funny. so beautiful that they give each other, well you give women Mimosa flower. I'm a tired of the rose you know, like it's always rose, rose and it's so great and I had no idea that you had this olfactory memory from Russia. oh Yeah, I decided to share it just because I know that he will appreciate it as somebody who likes exploring new things and new cultures and then probably also again sharing it further. All right, my next question. What's one city around the world that inspires your perfume ah memories the most maybe or scent memories? I think I will have to say uh in Peru, when I was in Peru I went to Cusco, which is a city in the mountains. It's actually the starting point to go to Machu Picchu. And over there, I don't know, there were so many smells that were super unexpected. The things that people are cooking and on the streets you have a lot of this kind of the smell of sheep that comes from the farmers that have alpaca and so this smells mixed with the spices and also there are lots of flowers like it's a city that is through thousands and something meters high. So it's a lot of mountains and you have a lot of fresh air, but also a lot of tropical flowers there. it's, I mean, I saw, for example, the Passiflore, which is the flower of the passion fruit. And I had no idea I would get to see this flower there. And I really love the smell of this flower. Even if it's super discreet, it's super nice. yeah, and just being in the Andes mountains, it's... So, overpowering, that to inspire you, think it's a nice place. Sounds great. So what's maybe the resource you would recommend to somebody who wants to start a career or an independent project? It might be anything you consider inspirational. I would say, yeah, well, traveling definitely, it makes you, it really reinforces this independent aspect. mean, you get to trust your instincts. You really work on trusting your instincts, which is, I think, super important to start your own project and go along with your dream, you know? So definitely traveling is one thing. And for me, best resource in the world and it's great because we have a lot. It's just talking with people, like uh being open, you I think sometimes we're super afraid of the others ah because maybe we put ourselves in competition. I don't know. I still haven't figured out why sometimes people are so afraid of people that they don't know. But it's so inspiring to speak with someone that is outside of what you know. That thinks super differently. It's so enriching. I think it's a resource that we could use and it's super nice. and quite often free. Well, honey, it was so inspiring talking to you. Thank you. It was super nice talking to you. As I said, I appreciate what you're doing to show a little bit different personalities of the industry. So, keep going. I super encourage it. Thank you.